Talk:Brothers
Scout's Rope? I see it in one group twice with the same exact group; What's worse, it's a zero to one group. Any reason? Aok1313 02:23, March 18, 2010 (UTC) :The same grouping is shown twice because one item from EACH of the groupings can drop. i.e. you can get two scouter ropes, or a scouter rope and a hedgehog bomb. Why not merge the two together can call it a "Zero to two of" grouping? Because then it's unclear if that means two of the same item(i.e. two scouter ropes) can drop, or if it means the two items MUST be different. This is also done because is some BS/KSNMs there are some groupings that are the same, except for maybe 1 additional item. Keeping them as separate groupings is the clearest way to illustrate what can drop. --Jawat 04:07, March 18, 2010 (UTC) ::Nevermind me, I misunderstood what you were saying, I need to learn to not edit wiki on less than 2hrs of sleep. It is indeed a mistake, fixed it. --Jawat 04:10, March 18, 2010 (UTC) Apocalyptic Ray I recently did a Brothers duo with my THF friend on 3/27/09, and during that run, the Eldertaur used an attack called Apocalyptic Ray. Right after I killed the Mindertaur, the Eldertaur (which my friend was soloing) walked over to me and used the attack. I know for an absolute fact that I was definitely turned, but I still got the Doom effect. It's not uncommon that the Eldertaur will attempt to walk over to where I'm soloing the Mindertaur, but we've definitely never seen that attack before and couldn't find it listed anywhere. Unknown thus far if there are any prerequisites for the Eldertaur in using Apocalyptic Ray. -- Merlini 11:45 AM, March 29 2009 (EDT) Really interesting! Good job getting a screenshot too. We have done over 50 runs of this ENM as a duo and never seen this TP move. Could be that a pre-req for it being in the TP list is Mindertaur dead? We always kill the smaller one first (Elder) and then big one (Minder), so this may be why we've never seen it. Could also have been a set time. How long does it take you to do the fight? We average around eight mins. -- Orubicon 18:57, October 21, 2009 (UTC) It could be. There could certainly be many different possibilities for this scenario to occur. As for the finishing time; we haven't done it consistently in a while, though I would say our finishing time would be somewhere around 10 minutes. -- Merlini 9:34 AM, November 11 2009 (EST) Additional Notes This isn't in the strategy notes, but they can cast Cure V on themselves and each other. --Bregor of Bahamut 13:04, 18 May 2007 (CDT) The Mindertaur has the draw in ability, used it on a SMN while trying to kite it with Carbuncle. --Lilwoody 09:10, 25 October 2007 (UTC) This ENM is most likely a reference to the brothers who were a boss battle in Final Fantasy V and a Guardian force in Final Fantasy 8. In both versions, they were depicted as two minotaurs, one being far smaller than the other. Lawii Quetzalcoatl 13:45, 1 September 2008 (UTC) Multiple Drops. This ENM can drop 2 hedgehog bombs at once :D Can drop 2 scouter's ropes. Also, why is it listed as 0 percent forager's mantle?--Lightningcount 14:58, 6 August 2008 (UTC) :The reason it's at a 0% drop rate is nobody has currently edited the drop rates with forager's mantle in the list. If you take a look at the drop% from the edit page, you'll see the forager's mantle is currently 0/55 runs. If someone was to update the entire section to 56 runs and add 1-2 forager's mantle to the drop rate, it would be reflected in the drop percentage. Obviously false information is not welcome, but feel free to update if it does happen to drop on one of your runs. The more drop/run information provided the more accurate the drop percentage is. 08:10, 7 August 2008 (UTC) HP estimate The estimate of 4500 seems to be either out of date or incorrect. I've been trying to work out solo strategy for this and in the previous run I used Blizzard III to nuke down the Eldertaur. I was hitting for 577 with no resists and I landed 8 nukes before dying due to a TP move while converting. 8 x 577 = 4616 and the Eltertaur had roughly 12% hp remaining which leads me to estimate more like 5100 HP. I can't speak regarding the Mindertaur's HP but I can say I'm suspicious of the claim that it has draw-in, just due to previous duo/trio attempts. --Aeolus 22:02, 3 April 2008 (UTC) It may have cured itself, elder can cast cure V Nyxx26 00:25, 5 October 2008 (UTC) Resistant to magic? You sure they're actually resistant to magic like the description says or just the fact that, because they're listed as WHM, the magic defense bonus isn't just canceling the magic attack bonus from players. There's a difference between resistance and negated damage lol. --Aneu 09:10, 25 September 2008 (UTC) The smaller brother does NOT have magic reduction to nukes. He is a WHM mob with a MDB of 16 and 79 int. I have tested this mutliple times and using the known magic damage formula my nukes come out to the expected damage everytime. The larger one, however, does appear to have something else besides basic MDB. Damage on him is much lower and more than can be accounted for by INT alone. Malakethx 17:32, 26 November 2008 (UTC) Draw In. I've had it use Draw In before the Dec 12th path. I just think it does it rarely. --Roskink 04:52, 15 December 2008 (UTC) Has used it before the December update. They just use it very, very rarely. I have done this ENM twice after the update and we have not noticed a difference. Haven't seen it posted anywhere else, but they do share hate too (this has always been the case). -- Orubicon 21:49, 20 December 2008 (UTC) Ice wall I've realized the Ice walls melts only after a Blizzard. If there is Snow weather and it stops, the Ice Wall will continue there. Can anyone confirm this? --Lisamarie 03:26, 13 August 2009 (UTC) *The ice wall melted after a Snow weather. Although the other day I was there that didn't happen. --Lisamarie 03:02, September 4, 2009 (UTC) It's somewhat random. We've waited up there for literally more than two hours for the weather to drop and it'll go down right away. Conversely, we've waited for the weather to drop and the ice wall stayed up. Seen this five or six times now and it's extremely annoying. Seen it not drop after both snow (single) and blizzard (double ice). There is no pattern to it. I initially thought that it was due to being night when the weather stopped and that the sun needed to rise (to "heat the wall") for it to drop. This was after we saw it still up during no weather around 4am Vana'diel time, and when it got to around 6:15am Vana'diel time the ice wall dropped. However, this was disproven to us the last run we did where the weather stopped around 4am Vana'diel time again, but this time the wall STAYED UP until around 12pm Vana'diel time. At which point it started snowing again... Either it is glitched or it's random. But the ice wall definately does not drop as soon as ice/blizzard weather stops every time. -- Orubicon 18:43, October 21, 2009 (UTC) :One theory is it only "thaws" during "Clear" or "Sunshine" weather, which are valid weather effects in vana'diel, just they have no weather icon (such as fog). The times it didn't thaw with no active blizzard weather could be that the weather was "Cloudy" (another hidden weather). This makes sense because sunny weather tends to melt ice faster I rocky 01:58, January 16, 2010 (UTC) Testimonials *A simple strategy is to Elemental Seal + Sleep II the Mindertaur, and have everyone focus their efforts on the Eldertaur until it's dead. With a standard experience points party setup of 75s using their 2-hours, the Eldertaur died before the Mindertaur woke up. *Both of the NM's have very long aggro range- much larger than spellcasting range. So don't expect to get off a timed nuke before an ES Sleepga II. You will be aggroed before you are in range to cast. :*Two 75 RDMs, or two 75 BLMs, or one RDM75 and a BLM75, 75 RDM and a 75 MNK or one BLU75 and a RDM75 can duo this ENM. Please explain a strat. :*Can be soloed by a 75 RDM properly geared for Magic Attack and Enfeebling. :*Can be duoed by BLM and THF. :*Can be soloed by a BLM. Please explain a strat. :Done this many times with 4 bst/nins. All go in and familiar CC. one bst leaves cc on big one while another bst pulls the small one to tunnel. Small one should be dead before big one kills lone CC giving you time to rebuff and go after big one. Good idea to wait till call beast timer is up again incase your cc gets doomed or dies. usually clear in 11 mins (5 of those waiting on call beast timer) 3 well geared bst's can do this, but 4 regular gear bst's have no problem also Jado818 03:52, 22 August 2009 (UTC) *Beat as a duo, WAR/NIN and RDM/BLM. WAR aggro, RDM ES Sleep2 on the spot at their spawn. Pull little one to entrance, popped two hour while TPing (hate) but that's your call, still got a KJ in for 1500 before it wore. Before WAR engages have RDM dispel to check for buffs. After you take a decent amount of health out have RDM chainspell finish it. RDM can die away or on the spot and you can both die, doesn't matter since waiting for two weakness timers is no different than one. Get up, wait for weak, buff up, go fight the other. Somewhat resistant to enfeebles my RDM said, he's a good RDM too. Spam dispel so it uses casting time to reapply buffs rather than heal as much (Like Nevermolt, I believe?). WAR voke regularly, blink when you ready your ws and hit back at the same time so you're not stuck facing him in ws animation incase he tries to use gaze move. RDM nuke on occasion if you can manage MP well enough. Also cast utsu facing away. Really wasn't hard on my part, I'd say it takes a decently skilled (my gear is meh) WAR at best, but still a good RDM. Finished with six and a half minutes remaining on first duo attempt, we were taking it slow though. Probably bringing an icarus wing next time to get another MS'd KJ in. Sorry for wall o' text. TL;DR = takes little skill, use your brain and you'll win. --Aneu 05:19, March 8, 2010 (UTC) Grouping? My friends and I did this today, and by the grace of God got 2 Hedgehog Bombs. However, we also got a scroll of Raise III. The groupings on the page say the Hedgehog Bombs and Raise III share a space ("Zero to one"), but 2 Hedgehog Bombs and a Raise III scroll defy this. (We also got a Dragon Bone, I think.) Since two Hedgehog Bomb/Raise III groups are listed, I think there might either be another group, or multipe items from each group can drop. Unfortunately, I don't have any proof to support this claim. DaBackpack 03:36, March 13, 2010 (UTC) :Multiple items cannot drop from each group, in the sense you are thinking. If two items from the same grouping appear to drop, it means that at least one of the items either belongs to a different grouping, or belongs to multiple groupings. --Jawat 04:02, March 18, 2010 (UTC) Okay, well then there must be some other group of drops I guess. My group most certainly did receive 2 Hedgehog Bombs and 1 Raise III scroll (I checked again to make sure). Although I don't really have anything else to work with, and I don't know the correct groupings, I just thought I'd point this out. I don't mean to desecrate the current groupings, I just wanted to bring this to light. I guess it really doesn't matter, since the important part (the valuable Hedgehog Bombs) seems to be correct. DaBackpack 20:23, March 18, 2010 (UTC) :Indeed, it's to early to say if the Raise III scroll does not belong in those groupings, but you have shown that at the very least it also belongs in another grouping. I'm 99% certain it doesnt belong in the grouping with the synth items, but I'll check on that later today. Otherwise, this means we have to determine if the scroll belongs in the same grouping as the Cloud Evoker, or if it belongs in an entirely new grouping on its own. --Jawat DRK Zerg Just did this as a DRK 72 with Octave club and RDM/BLM. I popped a sole sushi for acc and had to use my emergency acc macro to swap in all of my acc gear. The evasion on these guys just won't permit HP/haste gear, but perhaps a 75 DRK with KC could do a bit better with the extra club skill and homam gear. With over 1600 HP and blood weapon active, I made short work on the Elder but it lived through it amazingly enough(a few misses by me) Some cure bombing from the RDM and it was dead in less than a minute. ES Sleep II on the big one to start, DRK engages little one with Drain II. Zerg it dead and med up for the big guy. DRK does what they can to help the rdm until soul eater is ready again. Zerg the big guy. At this point rdm MP isn't so great so you back off for the last 10 seconds of soul eater so RDM can start kiting again and get MP back. It will cure V itself to over 50%. If you can manage another ES sleep II then go for it. Finally RDM decided to use convert and be done with it, got MP back, and we zerged the last 50% off. Just for the record, it did use draw in on the RDM during the last zerg, so it definitely uses the ability. It's the first time I've seen it. One more mage would be ace for the zerg. It's not solo and it's not a duo, but it'll get the job done just as well. I would suggest WHM for cure V/IV bombs but just about anything that heals will work. A RDM solo has a hard time keeping up with a DRK zerg, so my damage output suffered.--Botiemaster 02:07, March 18, 2010 (UTC)